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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
217
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Posted - 2012.12.11 20:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Schalac wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote:
If you live in high sec you have to put forth very little effort to make more isk than someone living in null.
Because it takes so much effort to bounce from belt to belt killing rats for 15-20 mil a tick. I bet you can make so much more in highsec doing the same thing too right. I LOVE replies like this, because you can tell the person posting hasn't been to null since at least 2008.
Right, now you can bounce from anomaly to anomaly for better isk than that. |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
217
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 20:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
You know, I read this whole thread, and neither side actually addressed the question in the OP with a serious answer.
The rewards from highsec and nullsec are distinctly different (except for isk), and there seems to be quite a bit of mythology and choosing sides going about.
"The economy" isn't a thing you can break, it is a matrix of trades. Nullsec players can get billions of isk for officer modules from highsec mission runners because the modules only spawn in nullsec and highsec mission runners have the isk to spend. *That* is the economy, and I would think that nerfing direct isk payouts to highsec mission runners would quite effectively nerf the income potential for nullsec players that are actually bringing in the ores, moon goo, and top modules that the highsec players need to do their thing for top benefit.
Of course, a portion of the production of highsec has to make it back out to nullsec to keep the lines rolling out there, too, but I would think that nullsec dwellers of all people would be able to see the lines of inter-security trade more clearly. |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
218
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 12:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ludi Burek wrote:HVAC Repairman wrote:
Hisec players on average (not every case, but on average) have little to no understanding of the big picture, only care about isk/hour, do not believe in risk vs. reward, cry about everything they do not like, make the most god awful game suggestions, boggle down the petition system with the most inane drivel, complain incessantly about representation on the CSM, make the most god awful posts, are nearly universally incapable of deductive reasoning, start the most ridiculous tinfoil conspiracy theories, believe that suicide gankers should be banned for griefing, want hisec to be completely safe, and generally want to see EVE die in the same way that Ultima Online did.
I don't begrudge people who play the game in the style they prefer, I begrudge people who don't want other players to be able to play theirs.
Best post.
Yeah, come on down to F&I for the hundredth or more "nerf AFK cloakers" thread if you think nullbears are any different than highsec carebears.
The fact is there's lots of little (and not so little) things broken, and as another poster pointed out it seems to be human nature to blame the people playing the game in the portions where the breakage is different rather than the designers. |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
222
|
Posted - 2012.12.13 15:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
Yea, you could say i read this whole thread, and all I see is a bunch of Hig hsec people hiding behind that insane "you just don't want me to play my way" crap.
Who in their right mine actually believes there is some evil dude sitting at a computer saying "your clicking of buttons is inadequate compared to mine, you must pay"?
More evidence of high sec thinking, basically "if people are PLAYING AN MMO like it has other people in it (rather than playing it like it's a single player game with an added chat box) well, they must really care about how I play, and me as a person, because look at that dude trying to shoot me in a game where damn near every ship has guns".......
It's just silly and you people should stop being silly.
I personally know a person who won't play any MMO ever because the thought that there is a live person on the other end of the pixels that they are competing with is just too much to take.
You might think it's silly, but for them it's real.
I'm sure there are a lot of other people out there who can tolerate the competition but don't enjoy it the same way you or I might, are you saying that they shouldn't have a place in the game?
To be successful, EvE needs to be appealing to enough players to pay the bills, and due to spaceships being less appealing to most people than humanoid avatars that's going to mean leaving a space for the competition-averse who also happen to like spaceships.
WiS, properly done, could allow for a more aggressive stance overall. Dust 514 certainly does, but only on that front of the game. |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
223
|
Posted - 2012.12.13 15:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
EvE has to contain the places for the coach, match officials, concession stand, and audience all as part of the *same game* for your analogy to even be relevant, and as soon as it does you can see that your argument is pointless.
EvE is also designed so that raw strength isn't the only way to win, so the other part of your argument falls over as well since someone can "win EvE" by running the most profitable concession stand without ever taking to the field. |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
223
|
Posted - 2012.12.13 15:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Buzzy Warstl wrote:EvE has to contain the places for the coach, match officials, concession stand, and audience all as part of the *same game* for your analogy to even be relevant, and as soon as it does you can see that your argument is pointless.
EvE is also designed so that raw strength isn't the only way to win, so the other part of your argument falls over as well since someone can "win EvE" by running the most profitable concession stand without ever taking to the field. I can think of game analogues for all those positions. EVE is specifically designed so that the stronger party wins. But there are many kinds of strengths, just as there are different roles within a rugby team. A Fly-half is rarely a musclebound weightlifter.
Your talking past my argument.
Even the audience in EvE needs to be part of the game.
Frankly, unlike rugby, EvE isn't one game at all.
You can't play "resource harvesting" by the same rules as "sovereignty PvP" or "market domination", yet these are all necessary parts of EvE for it to be the rich and engaging game that it is. |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
223
|
Posted - 2012.12.13 16:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Buzzy Warstl wrote:Malcanis wrote:Buzzy Warstl wrote:EvE has to contain the places for the coach, match officials, concession stand, and audience all as part of the *same game* for your analogy to even be relevant, and as soon as it does you can see that your argument is pointless.
EvE is also designed so that raw strength isn't the only way to win, so the other part of your argument falls over as well since someone can "win EvE" by running the most profitable concession stand without ever taking to the field. I can think of game analogues for all those positions. EVE is specifically designed so that the stronger party wins. But there are many kinds of strengths, just as there are different roles within a rugby team. A Fly-half is rarely a musclebound weightlifter. Your talking past my argument. Even the audience in EvE needs to be part of the game. Frankly, unlike rugby, EvE isn't one game at all. You can't play "resource harvesting" by the same rules as "sovereignty PvP" or "market domination", yet these are all necessary parts of EvE for it to be the rich and engaging game that it is. You can, however, make all those things 100% competitive, and you can make them open to people leveraging their preferred form of competition against yours.
Which EvE does (to the extent that it's actually possible). But you can't just set up a cola bottling line in the middle of a rugby pitch and expect either the bottlers or the rugby players to be happy about it. |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
223
|
Posted - 2012.12.13 17:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:So long as the consession stand owner understands he can still be hit in the head with a ball because he's near a rugby game, let him sling as much junk food as he wants.
it's when he wants rugby banned because "sport isn't his playstyle" that he can F off. Doubly so when he's saying this while very directly profiting off of rugby.
Most concession stands are on the back sides of the stands for exactly this reason.
How well would the concessions run at a rugby match if they had to be on the field? They'd be trashed with sausage, soda, and money scattered to the four winds.
Different parts of the game have different requirements for competition. For merchants and harvesters one of the best ways to be profitable is to be as far out from underfoot from the combat competition as possible.
Obviously there has to be *some* amount of exposure to get at the best resources and make the best per-unit profits, but you can't simply say "everyone needs to be fully exposed all the time" and expect it to lead to a game that's enjoyable for everyone.
http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm
Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
223
|
Posted - 2012.12.13 17:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
I think that y'all have been proving the OP's point quite nicely.
The fact is that at a rugby match the rugby players don't give a crap what the concession stand owner is doing during the match. They don't come around the stands to give him a good tackle just for profiting off their game.
Speaking of obtuse, failure to recognize that not everyone is like you is pretty obtuse, isn't it?
http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm
Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
224
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 14:56:00 -
[10] - Quote
Why would highsec people keep coming back to a thread about "why do nullsec people keep asking CCP to nerf our part of the game? Why do the nullsec people even care about what happens in highsec?"
EvE is more than one game, smashed together into a common space. Were it not so, then a complete understanding of highsec mechanics would be sufficient to deal with all other parts of space, and there wouldn't be issues with people who don't play in nullsec not understanding the current state of nullsec mechanics.
http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm
Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
225
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 15:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
Just to be really clear, Jenn aSide, why do you care if there are people playing EvE that don't want to get shot at by other players?
As long as they recognize and accept the risk that they might be, they really are nothing to your playstyle but occasional targets of opportunity (to paraphrase your own post).
Yes, there will be odd bits of forum whining, but that's part of what the forums are for.
EvE's strength is variety, and wimps are part of any decent gaming ecosystem.
http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm
Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
225
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 16:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
Eh, people are going to play that have serious problems with getting shot at. When they inevitably get shot at they will ragequit, some will whine on the forums as part of that process.
Some portion of those people will HTFU and come back as better players, some won't.
I don't see any reason to be concerned with them at all.
http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm
Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
226
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 16:11:00 -
[13] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Buzzy Warstl wrote:Just to be really clear, Jenn aSide, why do you care if there are people playing EvE that don't want to get shot at by other players?
As long as they recognize and accept the risk that they might be, they really are nothing to your playstyle but occasional targets of opportunity (to paraphrase your own post).
Yes, there will be odd bits of forum whining, but that's part of what the forums are for.
EvE's strength is variety, and wimps are part of any decent gaming ecosystem. A player who does their best not to get shot at is a good player. A player who does their best to get the game changed so they can't be shot at is a bad player.
The latter group doesn't have much staying power in EvE, in case you haven't noticed, and even less leverage with CCP.
http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm
Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
226
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 16:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
Yet you care enough to come on the forums and rant at them.
CCP knows that it is the risk that makes so many players loyal to the game, you don't really believe a few crybabies on the forums will make them change the fundamentals of the game in that respect, do you?
Heck, if it weren't for the risk and the planning necessary to deal with that risk I'd have gotten bored and wandered off long ago, and odds are you would have also. Without the risk of getting shot at by other players anywhere in space this would just be ProgressQuest with extra spreadsheet action.
http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm
Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
229
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 16:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Quote:
CCP knows that it is the risk that makes so many players loyal to the game, you don't really believe a few crybabies on the forums will make them change the fundamentals of the game in that respect, do you?
They already have. You must not have played EVE for very long.
An example please? If you are talking about the mining barge changes, they took away my favorite lowsec hauler when they did those :(
Quote:Quote:
Heck, if it weren't for the risk and the planning necessary to deal with that risk I'd have gotten bored and wandered off long ago, and odds are you would have also. Without the risk of getting shot at by other players anywhere in space this would just be ProgressQuest with extra spreadsheet action.
It's much like that already, I don't even had to glance at local or take any precautions when i'm doing high sec pve stuff.
Not that looking at local in highsec ever did anyone any good. Too much noise to pick a decent signal out of.
http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm
Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
229
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 19:18:00 -
[16] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Not that looking at local in highsec ever did anyone any good. Too much noise to pick a decent signal out of.
Never been in FW or been wardecced I guess? 
Too many highsec systems are so busy that my poor overworked screen can't even display the whole local list with my super-secret intel settings.
YMMV.
http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm
Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs |
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